I have a great friend named Joe that I'll occasionally get into these long discourses and exchanges with. This was one that started when he challenged/questioned my views on free-will vs. fate. -------------------------- Are you familiar with ideas of time as the fourth dimension? Whether you are or not, I'll illustrate: Lets take a ball bouncing. For this example we'll say it bounces twice. Just there: one, two. Now let's squash out the dimension of depth. So the world of this example is completely flat, like an animation cell. And the world goes by like a movie. One, two bounces. Now take all of the animation cells of this ball bouncing twice and stack them on top of each other. Lets say they are a thickness so that when we have two bounces worth stacked, they create a 1 foot cube. Now instead of them being a stack of individual sheets, lets say they're one continuous plastic block. Now we'd have what would look like a MacDonald's set of Golden arches in a block of clear plastic. This is a bouncing ball if its depth was time. Every action is a sum of causes (chaos theory). A domino falls because the one before it hit it. A coin falls on one side because so many p.s.i. of force times its mass produced so many rotations. We look at a menu and order something because of our past experiences, predispositions and current stimuli add up to a certain preference. Now if we take the fact that everything is the sum of what went before it and think of the world as a stack of animation cells, we can create a picture of the world. Everything has happened, is happening and will happen. What you think of as "free will" exists in that we can decide where things go, but all of those decisions have already been made. "Free Will" is actually a component of the predetermined destiny. If you don't agree with that think of this thought experiment: Let's say you're in a position to make a decision, exercise your will. We'll say you're deciding what movie to go to. You're looking in the paper, you go down the list of shows and decide to go see the new James Bond movie. Now why did you make that decision? Well, you've only heard about a certain number of movies and you've seen Bond ads and it's playing at the right time and you like Bond. You like it because you've had good experiences with them and similar movies and why ever else. Doesn't matter; you like Bond. So you make the decision to go see the movie. Now let's rewind time. We go back to when you open the paper and we DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. If nothing has changed, same movies, same times, same Bond, same history, same Joe, do you think you'll choose something different? That's the question. Now even if we can't account for every factor the simple fact is that these factors will always happen in a certain fashion and as a result the past, present and future are set and we're just living through them. In our thought experiment, you going to any movie other than the Bond flick at that point in time does not exist. Their was no possibility that you were ever going to go to another movie because things happen and Joe reacts to them as Joe will react to them because Joe is Joe. Sum of the factors. Thus you can say that you only have one path. That's predestiny...and "free will" is a part of it. But interestingly enough...you might have gone to another movie. Now everything that I've said is true. But it's all true for a world that is bigger than an atom. I've read some things that elude to the fact that at subatomic levels reality is different. Everything may be a sum of the factors but those factors, on a small enough level, maybe shift. So maybe you would have gone to something other than the Bond flick if we rewound time. An even more wacky angle is that our cross-sectioning of time as we experience it, like the flipping of animation cells, may not be a cross section of a time that is a big fixed statue. Things may be moving fourth dimensionally. In which case if we rewound time with you sitting on the couch looking at the movie listings we'd find that the past we rewound to was not the same past that we grew out of. But the new past would or at least could work out to the present that we rewound from. This is a theory that makes sense in my head and does make sense, but I don't have time to explain it further. I've got a club to get to. 'til we speak again, Bride ----------------------------- I went out dancing, Joe responded and this is the following letter (unfortunately I have lost the letter in between). ----------------------------- I think we're saying the same thing. I'll just give you a mental demonstration: If we cross sectioned a line(1D), we'd get a dot (0D). If we take a square (2D) and cross sectioned it on one of it's non-existing axi (at right angle to the 2 dimensions it has) we'd have a line (1D). If we had a cube (3D) and cross section it, we'd get a square (2D). Whenever you cross section something you get a version of it that has one dimension less. A cube is the 3D cross sectioning of a 4D whatever. Now picture this: Think of a laser and when they put it through one of those splitters so it comes out like a flat wall of light. Then they love the demo of where they run this flat sheet of light through a fog. And what you see is a swirl of fog in this laser. Here's a 2D cross sectioning (flat laser) of a 3D mass (fog). The idea is what if our consciousness is merely the 3D traveling cross-section of a 4D universe? So we're experiencing the swirls, but actually they're part of a fog bank. But the traveling of our 3D cross section through the 4D or the movement of the 4D universe (swirling fog), implies movement and time beyond the fourth dimension. Which would mean a 5th dimension. Interestingly enough I've heard of a theory eluded too called the "String Theory". I know nothing about it, but a sound bite that I caught on a PBS special said that mathematically it would require at least 10 dimensions. I think I'll look into it. But at some point these things are going to move beyond the realm of helping me get chicks. I want to write about the idea of finite dimensions vs. infinite dimensioning, but I'm hungry and need some PB&J. So with your response, ask me about finite dimensions. Hasta, Bride